propositions press 2.1 ... moving through the corridors of the radical midwest ... from the archives of our political education - propositions press... 2.0

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11/13/2009

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ken

oh hell look a marxist also..

dan s wang

Dear Ken,
You are obviously not interested in discussion. But I welcome your voice. The collision of viewpoints is what the web is all about, and there is no doubt that our perspectives will not agree. That's fine.

Just one thing: get your facts right about Obama. You can hate the guy, it's a free country, but at least keep your deep-end histrionics to yourself. Because your child-molester accusations say more about you than they do him.

ken

what...i just don't know how to talk to people who live in the u.s.a. and want to talk about how great marxists are,so what is it about you and michael moore and keith olbermann that makes you hate this country...i expect a honest answer...

dan s wang

My parents came to this country for opportunity, freedom, and to escape
communism in China, first, and then later, North Korea. And I have
spent plenty of time overseas myself, so I know exactly what is great
about this country, what sets it apart and makes it special, why it is worth defending.
Also, what is wrong with it, where we fall short, how we don't live up
to the promise.

And I can tell you this; people like you, who cannot even admit that
Michael Moore might have a valid point once in a while, are one of the
reasons why America's future is bleak. How do we solve America's
problems if you can't even admit that they exist? In the meantime, all
that great private enterprise the right trumpets has become faceless
corporatism–much more damaging than the federal govt ever was–that
continues to take away all manufacturing, all skilled labor, and all
innovation from these shores.

And yet you go on...wailing about some imaginary Marxists while the
private capital pulls the rug out from under you. Very, very sad.

Btw, my parents were die-hard, campaign donation-making Republicans for
decades. I grew up with a picture of Reagan next to our family photo.
George W. Bush cured them of that. They were sad to leave the GOP but
now can see nothing good coming from the right.

Now it's your turn: how the hell can you justify your positions given
that PRIVATE CAPITAL is robbing us–you, me, and your children–blind???

I expect an honest answer. (And decent English and grammar would be a plus.)

Emmi

Dan, "ken" isn't even able to give a basic defenition of Marxism, much less behave in a rational manner.

You'd be better off expending that typing energy visiting my blog once in a while. 

............

:D

ken

dan,i did not ignore your reply,i have no way of knowing that you have left a reply on your blog unless you hit the reply next to my name.that you and your parents left china because they saw the short term and long term wrong of communist china is great,but then you want to turn around and embrace the same mentality you left confuses me.micheal moore feeds of your fears and hopes for his own interests,his end goal is the complete destruction of the capitalist system,he doesn't want to fix it,he doesn't want to tweak it,he see's the goverment as the answer to everything,much like his ''fact'' that cuba has a better medical system then america,he thinks that china has a better ''wealth distribution'' system then america. 

america has a bleak future,who told you this,we are going through a rough time right now but we are still the strongest, most innovative country on the planet.that the u.s.a. has been forced into buying raw materials from overseas,sending jobs overseas,and and now with people like gates sending billions of american dollars overseas is the weakness of american morality,in the interest of a global economy we are depleting our own resources, your obama has promised to stop this outsourcing,as of yet i fail to  see any progress,if anything just the opposite is the truth, in the last stimulas spending on green power obama approved billions of dollars to overseas companys to build windmills and solar arrays.

just incase you know nothing about the bank failure,the relaxing of credit requirements was started by democrats that wanted to give people a chance to buy a house,the goverment didn't seem to understand the reason for tight requirements is that so the banks won't go broke and so people don't go bankrupt.but instead you had people making $40,000 a year buying $200,000 houses ,and quess what happened ,they wern't able to keep up the payments......the goverment has no idea on how to run a buisness,just lookat the u.s. postal service and compare them to ups or fedex.socailists/marxists have no idea on how to keep a buisness going they never have and never will.............theres at least a partial answer,if you reply remember to hit the reply,again its the only way i have of knowing.

ken

great self promotion, you might become a good capitalist if you keep up the good work............

dan s wang

Thank you for reminding me to hit the reply button.

The problem with your thinking is that you very conveniently forget that it was the corporate lobbyists who pushed the deregulation of the banking and financial system. It didn't matter who was in power in Congress, the corporate money would have forced the Republicans to bow, and probably quicker. And if you want to blame a party, deregulation in general started in earnest under Reagan. That was his whole program--get government out of private life. Unfortunately, that mostly applied to massive corporate enterprise. The mom and pops (and half my family are small business people, a very honorable way to go) were put of business by corporate capitalism.

Government is not the best caretaker of many things, but there is more accountability to government than there is to corporate America. Outsourcing is not a government-produced problem; going for the lowest cost business environment is the inherent tendency of your beloved capitalism. If you want to see the result, you should go China. Even in the five-star hotels there, where they have staff ready to polish your apple at every turn, you cannot drink the water from the tap. Because they have no high quality public water system like we do almost everywhere in the US. Or go to any small midwestern town without a college...the downtown is a shell of its former self. It was not government that did this, it was Walmart.

Why anybody would blame government for the problems of this country when there are fat cat bankers and execs getting massive bonuses while laying off ordinary Americans by the thousands is beyond me. If Obama can be blamed for anything, it is that he put Geithner in charge of the non-reforms. Geithner will bow to Wall Street yet again. Capitalism wins. We lose. America loses.

Take off your ideological blinders and you will see that we may have common interest.

ken

they started the deregulation back in the late 1980's right about the same time credit cards really took off,i was living in vermont at the time,and guys that hadn't worked on the books for years were getting $10,000 lines of credit.it started with groups like acorn and moveon that pressured banks and congress to loosen lending standards so that low income people could get loans.now these same groups are pressuring obama and congress to further loosen credit requirements.when i let some one borrow $20 or$50 dollars i want to know when i'm going to get it back,and if the same person asks to borrow before they have payed back the first $20 the answer is a quick no,thats not cold blooded, its just self survival.

reagan tried to de-regulate goverment interferance,he was trying to take the goverment out of it altogether,socailst groups like acorn demanded that goverment interfer on their behalf,so dodd,frank,sanders and a few other ''progressive democrats'' forced banks to work against their own self interests,did alot of people who wanted loans and had every intention of paying them back get them, yes, but way to many people who thought it was play time also took advantage of the new low standards,and now the whole country is paying for it,

myself i don't like wal-mart i just came back down here from st.albans vermont where they have been fighting about a walmart for ten years.half the town is saying it would kill downtown,the other half is saying everybody already goes to canada or new york for their shopping.if anything  i have always thought of wal-mart as a socailist operation. but most people like that one stop shopping,out of the weather,and cheap prices.but some main streets are fighting back,i saw one town where the whole main street cut holes in the back of the stores and connected a dozen shops.if they could class up wal-mart and make it more of a mall setting more people would except them.

capitalism is america it is our hallmark,to get rid of capitalism is to get rid of the u.s.a. it can and does work.it was made to do the most amount of good for the most amount of people,if the goverment would stop trying to dictate to wall street,the market would take care of itself,right now its more like a fruit stand with the local cop coming by and stealing apples.

dan s wang

Okay, now I see that you are seriously misinformed.

First thing: characterizing Walmart as socialist is absolutely laughable. Walmart is practically the definition of modern corporate transnational capitalism. Walmart is about highest profit at lowest cost for the owners of Walmart, period. That is capitalism, not socialism. The ugly results in terms of a shopping experience for you and me, and the impact left on the once-healthy local retail environments across America, are the product of CAPITALISM. That's what I mean when I say, take OFF your ideological blinders. The Jeffersonian democratic myth of small farmers and innovative small business people died long ago, thanks to corporate capitalism.

I defend and respect small business people; as I said, many of my relatives are such people. Their enemy is not government. What is killing them is speculation-driven corporate capitalism: big multinationals that deliver multiple brands of goods at the retail level, empty "financial products" at the investor level, and search the globe for the cheapest labor and easiest to extract raw materials.

Why do so-called conservatives not see this??

Just go to the outskirts of your town and see the national chains in action, the junk made in China that they are trying to sell you, or, if you prefer, the massive farms and fields of monoculture crops that have overtaken most all of the agricultural lands of America. Vermont has been spared BECAUSE of the citizens successfully forcing their government to shield them, in competition with the lobbyists of corporations who want to open up everything to their kind of plunder. Plunder is not too strong a word.

Also: you are totally ignorant about ACORN. ACORN has never had very much power, especially back in the 1980s. The local ACORN groups where I was in the midwest fought to get a stop sign put in. That was the level on which ACORN operated. To compare the influence of them to that of Citibank, Chase, Wells Fargo, not to mention all the big Wall Street firms, is completely ridiculous. Tell me, how much has ACORN spent on lobbyists in the last decade? How about the big banks? How much has ACORN donated to political campaigns? Now, how about the big banks--or big pharma, or big media, or big ag, or big anything??

It's corporate capitalism that runs the country, and is ruining it, not piss-poor groups like ACORN. Now, please, go do some thinking, instead of just parroting the tea-party line!!

ken

i think i'll reply in two parts,first walmart then later acorn,walmart is socailist utopia,the worker gets the most bang for his buck,they are proud of the fact that they have started companys in other countrys,the mom and pop's were killed by socailists,the made in america label was killed by socailists.they buy everything from the workers of the world, and when they do buy from withen americas borders they demand 40 to 50 % off everything they buy.wal-mart is the destuctive in your face result of socailism.there is no quality,there is only quantity.which is really what socailism is all about,warehoused shopping for warehoused people,one size fits all.we have given up our humanity for comfort.it's amazing that you could see wal-mart as anything other then a destructive socailist force.if anything i would go back to the barter system then walk into a wal-mart......

dan s wang

Dear Ken, repeating yourself does make your point any stronger. In fact, you're (non) reasoning seems to be getting weaker as this thread goes on.

Do you not understand that Walmart is traded on Wall Street? That Walmart made the Waltons the richest family in America? That the profit motive is the engine that drives Walmart? That these are the hallmarks of capitalism, perfected? That the enemy is CORPORATE CAPITALISM???

If you cannot, then you are blind. Absolutely blind. And worse, being blind, you are parroting the lines of the enemy, doing the ideological legwork for all that hate.

But keep it up, you're winning the argument for me.

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